Noe Kuremoto Episode #9: Decoding Ancient Wisdom Part 1 Relaunch

Relaunching a delightful artist interview, Noe Kuremoto shares growing up with Artists around her home in Japan.  Noe absorbed the artist lifestyle of gathering meaning, understanding that the objects and relationships have a larger context. She learned early how to become an academic artist. How to use classic materials. She gained an education in Contextual Art at St Martin's College in the United Kingdom. Switching gears into motherhood, she returned to basic mediums of earth, air, and fire, she found in clay.

Listening to her personal cues and the gossip in the big cities, Kuremoto heard the unease of the working class. Taking solace in her family and her practice, Noe took a leap out of her comfort zone, and started building a studio deep in a forest in Lithuania. Here she can gather her inspiration from the quiet.

Abandoning her culture over the years, Noe recognizes how important myths and stories are metaphorically to the here and now. She sees the sadness and desperation, weaving her perceptions into figurines that hold a symbolic meaning to everyone who sees them. Many of her sculptural pieces resonate on a deeper level, protecting us today, while they dance amongst the shadows from the ancient world.

Transcript

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Hey everyone, welcome back to the Creatively Thinking Podcast. Join Carolyn Vitello as she uncovers the inspirations behind some incredibly creative minds that are orbiting our local communities. Hello, Noik Kurimatus. So yeah, I I found you on the Toronto Outdoor Art Exhibit a little while ago, and I just I just had to talk to you. Yeah, I wanted to learn about your creative practice and see where you're at. So Noy Kurimatu is an artist whose work sits poised at the junction between modernity, memory, and mythology, using ancient stories to simplify modern discontent into childlike talismans for meaning. Originally from Japan, currently living with her family in London, UK, while she builds a studio in a national park in Lithuania. Yeah, let's just do a deep dive on your creative practice. How did becoming a sculptor artist as a career come about? Was it loving what you can do with your hands, being connected with your emotional well-being, or something else? So I have to take you back to 1990s when I moved to London. That's where I started my career as an artist. Let's see, sculpt. Right now I am known as Salamic artist, I guess. Or some people call me Salamicist. I started studying conceptual art at Central St. Martin in the 1990s. That's where it all begins in a Soho buzzing. BBM Westwood is doing crazy catwalk, and Tracy Amy is presenting a bed. She's making a trouble at the Royal College of Art. Damien Hearst sheep. You know, that this landscape of conceptual art was something so alive, and it felt like it's urgent to act with this conceptually driven art. This was not something it was familiar to me when I was in Japan. I I'm more classically, formally academically trained, fine art. Now perhaps I can take you back to my childhood. I was born in Osaka. I grew up in Osaka too. My father is still an artist. He was teaching a lot when I was little. Turned out to be around the primary school, as I went to school, I heard things like, oh, daddy's going to office. Like, oh, what's that? Oh, you know, my dad wears suits and go to work. Like, oh, oh, I guess my dad does that too. And I saw my neighbor's dad coming back rather knackered and tired and irritated after you know the Jap Japanese father often worked easily 12 14 hours a day. And I thought, wow, that what a strange your dad looks exhausted from life. My my parents are just often listening to music, eating, and friends are coming in the midweeks, drinking, drawing, dancing, you know, full of life in our family home. So I always knew that I really don't want to be in the other side. It looked like soulless life. You know, but then I also realized that was the majority of the world. So this is the background of how how I sort of grew up with a family full of artists all the time. With the contrast of Japanese economic bubble era, technology was thriving in Japan. Money was never the issue. Then the bubble busted. A lot of people end up jobless, a lot of people couldn't pay mortgage in the end. Adults were stressed. So it was a tension in Japan as I grew up. And I had a able to steal my father's magazine, art magazine. I started to become familiar with performance art, what's going on in New York, what's going on in London. They look rather exciting, and that's not something I could see immediately in Tokyo or Osaka. And I started to dream about studying in Central St. Martin in London. So as I arrived, like I said, you know, Tracy Emines and Damien Hurst, Sarah Lucas, Marina Boromits, they're all active, and if anything, they look like a revolutionizing the landscape of fine art. So I decided to abandon everything I knew how to draw, how to paint, how to sculpt, all the academic fine art skill set that I had. I think number one, it looked outdated, poor cousin of fine art. A girl who was a top of art school throughout her life in Japan, suddenly no one seemed to care how well I could draw or how how skillful I was. And that was a steep learning curve. I didn't realize I have to talk so much and defend my work. You know, like why why can it let the art speak? That was a sort of culture in Japan. You don't present so much and you don't certainly defend your work. So that feistiness in the classroom in Central St. Martin was complete cultural shock to me. I absolutely hate it in the beginning. But just don't make me stand there and defend my work. But in anyhow, so sorry, it's off the track. So you you're asking me how I became sculptor. That was the question, wasn't it? So my major as a conceptual art major, I was focusing on a performance art, video installation, site-specific work for a good 10 years. At the same time, I had to live in London. And living and making art is a biggest nightmare for any budding artist. You have to earn money, still make work, and if you're making conceptual work, gosh, the life is so much harder, right? If you have a work as a soundbite, if you have a work as you know, video installation, number one, it's it's not even saleable. Number two, you have to find an incredible gallery rep in order for you to able to pay rent. And that wasn't happening to me. Plus, I had to find someone who can sponsor me to carry on living and working as an artist in London. So I had a I had to hustle. I I had a job, lots of jobs, anything I can get handled, so I can carry on doing my work. Then first forward, I became slightly sick of doing a lot of computer work and hustling over digital art. At the same time, I was getting extremely resentful of life because I wasn't able to live off from work. As a result, I was doing a lot of freelance work, anything from nannying, waitressing, art direction, set design, production, runner, anything you can imagine. I was getting exhausted. One day I woke up thinking I miss clay. I I was playing with clay a lot ever since when I was a child. So it was more my oasis, if you like. Because I didn't need to be serious, I didn't need to write out a statement, I didn't need to approach gallery. This is something I want to do for myself. It's playful, I could draw in the air. It was out no outward pressure. So I created a little clay oasis for myself. This is like a 10 years gone now. It turned out to be it was rather rather healthy move. Something you enjoyed. Not just enjoy, it was crucial to reconnect, rewire fingertips and my neurological pathway. Because if you're doing a video art, let's say, you're most of the time you're editing, you need to you you're sitting in front of a computer. That's a lot of background what nothing to do with raw material. While when I'm performing, of course, it's it's it's body and it's space, it's raw materials, whatever that I happen to be using. But clay, ceramics is as you know, water, fire, hand, and that's pretty much it. In centuries and centuries, uh ceramics technology hasn't changed. We we use a fancier kiln to fire, but that other than that, clay's clay, water's water, fire is fire. And I could able to express something perhaps more honest. And I also started to enjoy my ceramic work, was talking to let's say real people. When you really make video art or site specific something rather you have to read lots of copy to understand what's going on. I was talking to a very exclusive audience, people who either studied or speak such language as a conceptual art. And I I think majority of the population don't speak uh conceptual art. If anything, I think people are afraid of because if they start talking about contemporary art, they might look silly or naive in some way or not cultural enough. So they don't tend they don't like to engage. But Ceramics was different. It was talking to the people who perhaps didn't need to study conceptual art. You hold, you feel it it's it's it's an object that you can decorate your house with. Uh in the beginning at least, uh so people saw it as a perhaps decorative object, something they can purchase and put it on on your bookshelf. And that was that was actually a wake-up call for me. I wake-up call because I forgot how important it was for me to talk to real people. The way that my painting or printmaking, I was also making lots of etchings in more traditional or fine art medium. And I was so hungry for it. Someone someone's someone's able to say, what a beautiful painting. And I I used to took that as a compliment. But if you study conceptual art, or if you're a conceptual artist, if someone goes, Oh, that's that's beautiful, then I was like, Oh, okay, I failed. You know what I mean? Yeah, it's about the thinking of it or the thought, right? It's not it's not about what it looks like. Yeah, people are afraid of beauty, you know. It's if anything is looking too nice to your eyes immediately, you're your failure as an artist today, yeah. And I I I bought the idea too. I I I thought more reactionary, more grotesque, more challenging conceptually. So that that's where I want to be, and I pushed myself for it for decades. Well, and it's like you you conditioned yourself to think that way with this the education and then how you were surrounding yourself. I I and I I admire those artists, and I I still do. I I I'm grateful for the education that I had uh from Central St. Martin, and I won't be who I am today if I didn't have that education too. But I I I feel like I'm I'm I'm in between academic fine art background that I had and conceptual art backgrounds that I had, they became like a big soup now, and that's how I see myself. And I like this soup. I I I like talking to real people, and I really don't find offensive when people go, oh, that's really pretty, Grace. I'm like, that that is pretty. I'm glad it's spoken to you some some level. So did I answer your question? This is so vague, isn't it? No, no, that's pretty good. I mean, you you're giving me the the layers of your your background, uh what made you who you are today, right? This this you can't just pinpoint one specific instance that then led you this way, right? Yeah, it's a number of things. Life is complicated, as you know. But I feel like finally I I'm trying to get meanness, the essence, and try not to be somebody else, try not to be someone who I thought I should be, you know, and also I became mom. That was another thing. I I didn't really like to produce the work that wasn't able to explain to my son. You know, that was an another motivation. I mean, like if you saw my old work, I don't think my son would uh well I know that he won't understand, so I yeah, I can read a Fuku for him, but that that's you know, I don't want anyone to look at my work, and if you haven't read a Fuko on each, you won't understand my work. That's that's not where I want to be. Yeah, and that's the way it is with conceptual. Being a Japanese-born artist has the culture, community, or landscape influenced your creative practice? See, you kind of already answered that, but so I touched a little bit on backgrounds. It's probably I'm mixing everything up, I'm sorry, the and breaking your structure. You know, this question is excellent. Question in the last uh sort of uh decade people do ask the singular question, why are you so obsessed? Was Japanese mythology. It's one of those questions I can't take it lightly because it turned out to be uh it's quintessential element of my work. And let's see. What what hang on? So your your your questions are sorry, I need to break down your question. Your question is uh uh repeat it. So you so you want to know how my Japanese heritage is influencing my work, yes? Yes, yeah, it's influencing deeply. Like I said, one question that it it follows me around. Why am I so obsessed with Japanese mythology? And we'll be right back. In other words, what initially starts your creative journey? So this is this is actually it links up to the previous question. I I abandoned my heritage in the beginning for me to fit into western art world, I desperately want to be a part of it. And just to give you an example, if you go to Japanese Salamitz studio, you will still see a fire god's house in the studio. Can you imagine that if I'm bringing building a little uh fire spirit fire god's house in a central St. Martin's studio, giving a little sake before I I fire my sculpture, sharing my lunch. I'll either be sent to hospital, or maybe they think that's a part of live performance. Or people walking through temple, and you will see coma inu, which is mystical lion statue, and people simply bow at essentially a rock, old rock, because they they think it it it carries wisdom and it gives you courage and wisdom. I some people might think uh Japanese are just so superstitious, maybe there's a lot of unseen world in. Is woven into today's society in Japan, i.e., Salami sisters casually bowing, shelling a luncheon, giving a sake to little spirit in a studio. That sounds insane in the West, but it's not in Japan. And I hated that side of Japanese culture as being teenager. I think you hate everything when you're a teenager though, right? I may maybe maybe uh so as I came to uh London I I I thought I have to what I what I was trying to reinvent myself to fit into the shape that's been pre-customated by conceptual art movement since the 60s. Uh of course I thought I I was successfully doing it. I don't think I could fool anyone, but anyhow, and turned out to be life is difficult and life is complicated, and life is extremely tough sometimes. When your teenagers in 20s, life is not so tough. No disrespect to any younger artist. Life is good, you know, you're idealistic, your health is great, you don't have a family to look after, probably your parents are still in a good shape, your friends in a good shape. So you, you know, you you're crueless because you haven't suffered. It's counterintuitive, but more suffering that we go through, the stronger we become if we are able to face the suffering. And Buddhism, first line of Buddhism is that life is suffering. You may think that how gloomy is that. Turn out to be not so gloomy, like life is full of suffering. We have to face death, we have to face illness, catastrophe, the wars breaking out, economical you know, collapse. As I go through life tragedies, my sphere of should I use the word atheism? Because that's uh word are you cannot be opening a can of one. It's it's and so many people do, right? That there's the atheists because I plant myself in a godless society, which is the yes, yes, and I I'm not a religious person. Yes, I I came from the Buddhist background and culturally Buddhist, but I but I never practiced uh I only go to temple to to eat nice things. I go to New Year because that's where my friends are, I go to temple because my friends are getting married there. You know, I I I'm that kind of culturally Buddhist. People will laugh at me if someone said I'm a Buddhist, because I I I don't see myself as a Buddhist. But what what I'm trying to get out of this because I don't want your audience to be put off by this religious reference, God and deities and spirits. The other things I abandoned turned out to be it became very useful tool when I was very ill, or when I was in a hospital, or when I lost loved one. It it often happened to people. Let's say you know, you you you have a road accident, and a lot of people pissed off with God all of a sudden, even their acist. You know, the shaking a fist at sky. What are they shaking a fist for? I was that person, and I just became very curious. Okay, I'm suffering, it is difficult, and my conceptual art is just not cutting it. I started to read a lot of uh Japanese folk tales, mythology, the things, the ones I used to hate, because it it didn't scientifically proven the any of the mystical stories. Uh you've probably seen uh some of my sculpture collection, maybe Satoli collection, let's say. It's a mountain god who hears people's light, and if Satoli hears light, they eat people. I mean that's what kind of nonsense is that. Do not lie, okay, fair enough, but what's this? Woohoo, this character's a mountain god's child and eating people. It felt like old fashioned and backwards when we're trying to shoot rocket up in the sky. We might be living in a Mars in the next century. But what are we got uh what are we doing as the demons and spirits? Turn out to be. I was the one shallow minded in reading a sentence too literally and not seeing beyond what narrative carries, the weight that narrative carries. So these days my work is sort of the bridge between the past and today. I feel like it's my mission to decode mythologies that I once abandoned. I thought that's not true. Be net. I thought it turned out to be that's really not why, that's really stupid, really. Uh that's because uh and so many people do, right? The old man's the atheist that doesn't exist, uh mystical river does not exist, and I didn't really question what uh might be what really is Satori, what what is this you know, mountain god is this evil character, or it's this not you know, it's a lot of like a decoding there. All all of the uh as I ask for help going through life tragedies, it became very helpful this mythology because it had carried a a lot of it gave me a solid guide. Yeah, well, I was just thinking maybe it gave you like you realize that it wasn't about how the stories, if they could be real or not, that it was more a metaphorical understanding of for sure. And and you know, it if some of the stories that I'm reading, it is thousands and thousands years old, and that that's of that's including when people didn't know how to write. So most of the story was you know great great grandparents telling kids, right? Because they believed that story was significant enough to pass on, and it today still exists. That that's gotta be something. It carries the weight. So then suddenly I got a little chills in my back thinking of how old some of the mythologies are, and today we feel like we were tremendous. We shooting a rocket, we have an internet and incredible technology, marvelous. We hardly ever die, you know. Yeah, the medical advances, but we we we are hosting a bunch of different kinds of problem today. People laugh at first world problem, you know, the Uber didn't show up on time. Uh oh my gosh, internet is I don't know, three bar left. That's panic, right? Where's the where's the 4G, 5G? Uh you know, oats milk is running out. It's like, what are we gonna what are we gonna drink with coffee now? It's it's we but this joke is not a joke. It's a serious matter because most of us are suffering with depression and we don't know how to deal with death, and we don't we're living a life soulless and not fulfilling, and that turned out to be a catastrophic problem today's society, and this mythology somehow offers that guide, and that that influences my work tremendously. So, going back to your the the the first question, sorry, the second question is how does it influence this? This is my long-winded way of influence. I believe these gifts from ancestors are the key to move forward progress as a human into future. So I'm ex excavating those stories out using my uh ceramics object. And you're weave yeah, and you're weaving the stories into into your stories. It's for sure. My my work is always deeply personal. For me, it has to be personal. I don't know any artist who can produce artwork without being too personal. Well, I can't speak for everyone, at least for me, it has to be deeply personal. Sometimes when I look back and see the work I was making, let's say, you know, 20 years ago, I feel like embarrassed. Oh my gosh, what the hell am I talking about? But it was important for me, you know. Maybe I was going through relationship problem, sexual revolution, whatever the suffering that I was facing, I'm reacting to that, right? And I think that's the only way to do it, at least for me. So, yes, it's it's deeply personal uh as I go through early motherhood right now. It that wovens into my art practice, parent art practice. Reading about your floating coffins killing your soul piece, and this is your uh clay warrior figurines that are protecting the dead in the afterlife. One of one of your most recent work, you were afraid to not be an artist as you saw yourself becoming your worst self. Would you say ultimately this piece connected you more honestly with yourself or your local art community? Was creating these Japanese figurines your talisman a form of peace offering to your larger creative practice, or is it more a cultural offering to your cultural heritage? So I'll try to answer a bit by bit. The haniwa. So my last solo show, killing your soul, killing your own soul. I presented over fifty Hanniwa warriors. Haniwas are traditional talismen in coffin era. We we used to bury Haniwa warriors with dead. That's because when human body dies, soul would depart the body and go through the new journey. And Haniwa warriors meant to protect soul, soul's new journey. So this uh this warriors they made up with earthenware. Some of them are really big, actually, it's as big as little child. And when you if you arrived to Japan, just look out out of your airplane. If you see looks like a tiny little keyhole, that's that's actually a tomb. And underneath, uh was a a big tomb, underneath of um king or queen's body, with literally some of the tomb has thousands and thousands of warriors. They're all protecting all around the dead. I mean, obviously their body's gone. In Osaka where I grew up. There was a lot of archaeologists who was working and digging warriors out. My brothers and I, I have two brothers. We used to go around the Osaka skateboarding, BMXing, watching Hannibal warriors being dug out carefully, immaculately by archaeologists. It was it was rather it left a strong impression to me. One I I I somehow liked this uh warrior being discovered out of someone's grave. I like the look of it and I I I like the these hundred of archaeologists using a brush and little shovels and taking forever to rescue these figurines. It looked like they had an important mission to deliver. Meanwhile, it was our part of playground skating around, watching the Hanwell Warriors being dug out one by one, and sometimes they line them up together. So if you're lucky, you get to see hundreds of them all together. What a treasure. First thought. In London there's a metro we call tube, because central line goes between West London to East London, goes through the city, City London, Liverpool Street, where a lot of office and banks are located. I'll be on the central line. And people looking sharp as you reach City, Bank, Liverpool, Moorgate. People look very well groomed and well dressed, but exhausted from life. And things that I often hear, thank God it's Friday. You know, it and I always thought, what a peculiar thing to say. Thank God it's Friday. I I made notes to myself, uh this is this will keep happening. You know, every every week I meet these well-groomed people. They they have more watch than they need, and their shoes are shiny, their nails are very groomed, but they seem dying inside. In fact, they would actually use those words too. Oh my gosh, I'm dying. Dying from what? I thought. Then this honeywork came back to me. Yes, the original honeywell was made to protect the soul departing from dead body after this. I thought perhaps we need a honeymo more than ever to protect the soul while when we are still alive. So that's how I started to make honeymour. That's how I started to make honeyways. That's how I how I started to make this warrior. Didn't think about making a solo show or the turning into collection, anything like that. It felt like a necessity to react to the situation it was unfolding in front of my eyes. So that that that that was an impulse to how I started to make. Yeah, and you connected more honestly with what was going on around you. Well, sure. Sounds like well honest, also for my own soul too, as I said, as an artist, when you are not able to live, you hustle. You have perhaps more straight job, and sometimes you don't get the balance right. You you you keep doing a side hustle because money might run out, living in London's extremely expensive, and you don't know when next side hassle opportunity will come, so you sometimes dazzle too much, and you you you witness your own soul getting collapsed at the same time. If you you know, I I wasn't the kind of artist who's gonna be living on a street and creates work for nothing, you know. I think I'll be too stressed to make my work if I can't pay my own rent and kids are not getting fit. So I also watched my soul too. So that in that sense, honest, honest, honest reaction to what was happening in the world or immediate my immediate reality in my own soul too. I just watched as if I'm a hawk in the sky, you know, hovering around. What is going on here? Because something was going terribly wrong. That that Central's lying carries, I don't know how many, God knows how many people. All the hearts are still beating, the souls are departing. I mean an endless escalator. Lo uh London uh underground is quite deep. And you see the people going up and down, up and down and escalator. They're all saying, Thank God it's Friday. Well, that's how I felt. Your uh Hanawa piece, it wasn't about because I was saying that it's I was asking you, is is it a form of a peace offering for your creative practice, or is it more of a cultural cultural offering for your heritage? But it's kind of really neither, it's more about the present moment and what you saw around you. Yes, for sure. All my pieces begins like that way. I I collect the things bugs me, the things that it keeping me awake in the middle of the night, you know. I I'm not the kind of artist walking around in the forest and tada, I'm inspired. Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way. If anything, the way I make work is more gloomy. Things bothering me, things are bugging me, and this miss the bug. There's hundreds of them, obviously. And I just wait and watch which bugs speaking loudest, and uh one by one I try to offer my solution in my own way, and that's usually turns into collection that turns into an exhibition. And let's clarify for the audience. No does not make bugs in her ceramics, just in case they may get confused. No, they're not bugs. That she makes, yeah. Ah, sorry. Well, thank you. Yes, yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes. I often I often get to ask this question, and I really like it. How do you develop your style? Or maybe the real question is how do you you how do you become distinct? Distinctive. Ow. The style question. Often the this comes from younger artists. This is in the beginning, I didn't like this question. I'm like, what does it mean? How do you develop your style? You know, it's me, I thought rather peculiar. You you make it, so it's it's your style, but then I had to confront that question more deeply because I was getting that questions uh a lot. The short answer is make a mirror, but perhaps this is too abstract. So, how do we how do we make a mirror? When I say mirror, you have to be deeply, deeply, brutally honest and be vulnerable. And that's what I mean, and how why is that mirror? Because if you really see yourself, other people actually see themselves and people are afraid to be honest and that stops them you know, the fear of being naked in in front of the crowd and that but we have to go through this w I I often think when I make work and when I just am I being as honest as I can be here the marker is often it feels a bit dangerous, you feel like oh I don't want to go there, it feels too naked, too vulnerable, and that's about right. I think that you know I I tell myself oh I I I pushed hard enough further enough. Then a strange thing happen, it's counterintuitive, yet a lot of people start connecting with your work as you go naked because they see themselves, you're giving them an opportunity to see themselves make it too, and that's when people start valuing artist work, not just with their time and energy, but with money. So that's how you become distinctive, just making a mirror. Becoming a mother and an artist has been a bit of a struggle for you, both with your father being an artist and the overwhelming responsibilities. How have you seen continuing to be a creative as a benefit to your family as a whole? That's a good question because I was terrified to be mom. I I I believe children will hijack my life, my career. There's something I worked so hard for so long and turn out to be it's never a good time. At least it was never a good time for me. Also, we live in a society where we were told that career is the most important things, and I I took that to my heart. I worked incredibly hard and I was definitely career-driven throughout the 20s and 30s. But here's the problem. My belief was as long as I'm focused and I work as hard as I can, my work will be good, or at least I won't have any regret left. So that was my rationale. As the career develops, you have more opportunity, bigger opportunity, and you certainly don't want to miss any opportunities. And the type type of probably any artist, you most of your audience are probably artists, right? Or uh maybe not. Uh how would you define your audience? Uh, so far, yeah, it's it's mostly artists, it's our uh artists, yeah. So for us, it you we're the kind of people who work to death. We were working throughout the night, that's no problem. Working 10-12 hours straight in a studio, that's not a problem. You know, if this was the office worker, that would be insane if someone asks you to work throughout the night. And they come back nine o'clock for one day. So when you have a life up approach, it it's it's not a good time, right? To be to to be a pregnant and and stuck with babies and kids. I rejected that idea for gosh, many, many years. However, my husband got a different view. I actually know him for a very long time. Even when he was in early 20s, he was already talking about it will be it would be cool to be dad. He he can imagine having a multiple kids. I mean, can you imagine when you're 20s? Did you think about having a kid when you're 20s? I mean, I don't even know how old you are. I'm in my yeah, no, no, I did not in my 20s, no. I was going through a marriage crisis because the one person as I was approaching 40 and late 30s, he is he's I I understood that work is really important for you, career is important for you, and he forgave me throughout the 20s. That's he said that's not a problem. 30s till mid-30s, there was no problem. After mid-30s, it became shaky. Shaky because he felt his life is not completed without being father, and somehow he knew that he will be a decent father, and him telling me his name is Ed, Ed telling me I'll be a good mother. That was just like number one, how do you know? Number two, I don't even want the kids, and number three, uh I tested myself with my girlfriends are having a kids by then, right? I mean, like I I I I liked kids, but like over the you know, lunch. I I don't mind having uh little kids around on Saturday afternoon. That's fun, but I uh I want to go back to my studio. You know, uh what if if if I have an opportunity I can't jump on it? It just sounds like they're gonna hijack my life. What a terrible idea, I thought. But at the same time, I they didn't want to give up on our marriage. As terrified as it was, resentful as I was, I agreed to have a first child. He's six, almost seven now. And I became mom six years ago. Turn out to be, turn out to be, what a surprise. It was incredibly good for me, and I I can't sugarcoat this. They do hijack my life, obviously, because they're kids, they need mother. But all the things that I was afraid of, it turned out to be, it was just made-up story from my frontal court. The biggest mistake or the things I could not imagine, I didn't realize that kids would actually help me to make better work, more meaningful, gave more depth, and I was so selfish. It was all about my work. You know, I was the kind of a girlfriend who would cancel Valentine's Day dinner because uh I'm inspired, I need to stay in the studio, you know. I'll see you at home whenever when I come out, you know, Christmas dinner. Oh, I'm inspired, I'll be there, don't know when. You know, it sacrificed everything for for your creativity. Uh sorry, say that again. I said, Oh, you you were sacrificing everything for your creativity. Yeah, I thought that's what what the artist meant to do. Turn out to be that selfishness it stinks, so it leaks. It stunk my work too. You know, it's self-centered, stinks. And motherfoot is ultimate wake-up call, suddenly you become secondary, and that was actually really nutritious element of my life. It became so weird. If someone asked me who would you die for, it's one of those questions I would have laughed at. That's a stupid question. Yeah. And we'll be right back. And when we become mom, that becomes very clear. Oh, I know who I'm gonna die for. And I actually that gave me a new set of colours that I didn't even know that I had in me. I I actually I had to change everything. I I had to change it where I work in a studio, the those like 12 hours non-stop working, it's impossible, obviously. I'm still breastfeeding my youngest one. So I started to work quickly and have a break and come back and go back to studio again. In the beginning, I I absolutely hated. I thought this is this is you know interrupting my flow. How am I gonna ever make a large-scale installation? Actually, maybe I don't need to make a large-scale installation. 12 hours non-stop. There's no such thing 12 hours non-stop anyway. I don't know what I was doing 10 years ago, but I was working long hours and I thought I was working hard. Now I work really efficiently, and when I have to take a break because you had to change nappy or you have to breastfeed the baby, I go back and I see I see the fault almost immediately because my mind had to be hijacked and I had to go back in again, and that process is kind of interesting. I work faster, smaller scale, and I make decisions fast. As a result, I became more intuitive. So, yeah, it's like practically it was interesting the way I changed dealing with clay sculpture, and philosophically, it was a complete wake-up call. I I would I would have probably advised 20-something years old me to don't be afraid and don't miss it because they they they're ridiculously funny, and of course it's hard, but they they change your life in it in a way the modern world can describe, and that would end up feeding your artwork because it's feeding you as a human. I often say to younger artists, there's a one studio where you produce work, you work. Actually, no, first studio is called life. That's all the raw material that's most important ingredients for your work. It comes from first studio called life, and second studio is where you make work, you feed your raw material into the second studio. And it doesn't if you think that way, it makes sense, right? The the mother food thinks I was terrified, of course it's gonna end up feeding me as a human. So I could feed more colours, more energy, more uh depths, more thinking into the the the second studio. Every heartbreak, every catastrophe would feed artwork. Obviously, that's historically been proven. So I have no idea why I was so afraid. Uh uh but now I have four kids actually. Yeah, and my studio, the Camic studio with four kids, can you imagine? I have no idea how I'm making uh work ever, anyway. Yeah, so how would you say your materials impact or change your sculpture? More specifically, how does your choice of materials influence meaning? Do you choose your before you begin sculpting, or does the material itself shape the work? So I mainly use clay right now. It what do you mean by how do I choose my medium? Well, it's just always clay, you never work with other mediums kind of thing. Oh, I see, see, see. Ah oh, I I stay open-minded. As I as I explain that to you, the journey of my work, I pay attention to things that it bugs me, and that's both shall I say, uh bothers me, and sometimes I keep it in a drawing form or writing form. I like writing, and writing crystallizes my thoughts. If you have an open-minded personal trait, your mind is everywhere and it's constantly chattling. Writing keeps my mind still, and it crystallizes my writing often reveals what I what's in my mind. Then as I write, I go, oh sometimes it's like one sentence. Ah, this is what I what was bothering me, and that then I can start sketching endlessly, for instance. And I pick medium according to that. Uh so whatever the bothering me, and my answer, answer sounds like that's too big. How can I shed the light to this problem? What I deeply believe that that that's that's the problem that suffocating humanity today. And if that lights need to be through video performance, I'll do that with a video performance. If that need to be through a painting, I'll do that with painting. But at this stage of my life, I love using clay, fire, water in my hand. Very, very basic ceramic studio, it's nothing fancy. Yeah. Yeah, because I'm recording ancient wisdom, Japanese mythology mostly, it somehow makes sense, and I like the fact that those ancestors, you know, they weren't even artists, people who were using it just mud and you know, fire pits to fire the talisman. I I actually enjoy using the same technology, same material wisdom. So for now that this medium works for me, but who knows, you know, tomorrow I might need to go back to to site specific installation that i i it disappears overnight. You know, may maybe. So I I stay open minded. This is why because I I I've been producing ceramic sculpture for a decade. Peart to call me um ceramicist. I I try to keep myself just an artist. You know what I mean? Because that name is I found it very dangerous. Because if you name yourself, well I I didn't people named me as a ceramicist, I I I'll become one. So that's dangerous. And so I often say, well, no, I'm just an artist. I I use great today. Yeah. I'm curious because it's a podcast, it takes so much of your energy and time, and uh I mean I don't even know whether you you you can live off from a podcast. So I I'm I'm always curious uh what how yeah, no, it's not yet, but but I'm working on it. Well good good good because I think people are hungry for a meaningful long format interview. Yeah, yeah, and I like I think it's I think it's helping. Well, there's a small. Yeah. Yeah, and I think I I've haven't seen very many other sort of people doing this. So I don't know. I think it's I think it's it's helping. I think it's it's good to be sort of an aside to the artist, or you know, just be a just be a part of the art community still, you know, in a in a supportive way. Well the the that that's how that artist spirit always has been, right? We we always find rundown landscape where it's cheap to live, and you go in there and do nice thing and paint a few things and graffiti and do the performance out on a street and ta-da until the organic cafe pops up and you know bunkers slowly started to buy buy out, and then we move move into another space and yeah, we do nice thing again. It's even you're just doing it in a soundscape globally available, and I I I love that the you're offering this soundscape. Yeah, I'm enjoying it, and I'm I'm hoping to yeah, to make some money with this because I could get advertisers on here like galleries and art stores and then other other advertisers as well. So great, you have a great energy. I I I I I hope we will be successful. Thank you so much. Okay, bye. Bye, have a nice day. Bye, okay, thank you, Caroline. All right, I'll speak to you soon. Bye. Yes, you too. Bye. Bye, bye, bye. Join me next time as I go down another rabbit hole with another creative professional on their insights, their inspirations, and their ingenuity.